The Holy Spirit in the worship place

[Richard]

I believe that there would be no worship of God without the Holy Spirit, that it is only through the work of the Holy Spirit that our hearts are drawn and inspired to worship. But let me make clear how this is and say that I am not presenting a different way to God other than through the Son.

When Jesus was on the cross he was not alone

2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

If God is but one God then the fullness of God was present meaning that the Holy Spirit and the Father and the Son were present at the cross. When I see Jesus I can not help but see the Father and the Holy Spirit to because in Jesus dwells the fullness of the Godhead bodily

Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

So when I enter into the worship place I see Jesus and the cross as the only way to have a relationship with God and that the fullness of God is present in Jesus (Father, Son and Holy Spirit). So the worship place includes all three persons of the trinity at the same time so the Holy Spirit is in the worship place.

The matter of calling upon the Holy Spirit can be explained in this manner of prayer

In my prayer I always address the Father first because that is what Jesus showed us in the structure of prayer He taught the disciples

Matthew 6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

I also address the Father first in prayer because Jesus came to reconcile us to God and the Father is God and Jesus example was to do the will of the Father above all else. Then also in my prayer I address the Holy Spirit because the Holy Spirit is also God and I ask that the Holy Spirit lead me and gives me the power to be a witness for the Lord and thereby bring glory to God. I finish my prayer by thanking Jesus for providing that clear and singular way to God. That by His mediation and sacrifice (the cross) I am allowed to have a relationship with God the Father and God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. And I end my prayer with this “In the name of Jesus Christ I ask these things” which I think is what Jesus told His disciples in this scripture.

John 14:13-14 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

I am sorry if this belief offends some but I can not walk in any other manner than to praise and glorify God (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) with all my heart, soul and strength and this is done by going through the Son and the cross which is the only door to worshipping God in His fullness.

[Cindy]

I don't know why it would offend anyone Pastor Richard. What you said makes perfect sense to me! Let me put on my flame retardant suit and tell you that a very long time ago I was given a book written by Benny Hinn about the Holy Spirit. At the time I read it I wasn't sure what to think about it. I was still a baby Christian at the time. I felt something wasn't right, but couldn't put my finger on it. It's been so long ago now though that I can't even remember anything he said in it. Which is just as well since now I know that he is a false teacher. Ever since reading it however, one question keeps popping up in my mind, and that's whether or not we should worship the Holy Spirit the same way we worship the Father or the Son. I don't mean worship Him together with them, but rather to worship Him by Himself. Do you know what I mean? Usually I tend to think of this late at night, (like now LOL) so I don't have time to study it and find out and by the time I wake up the next day, the thought is out of my mind again. So could you answer that question and let us know what you think about it?

[Richard]

Cindy wrote

one question keeps popping up in my mind, and that's whether or not we should worship the Holy Spirit the same way we worship the Father or the Son.

　
This is where much abuse has entered the modern Christian body. My answer to this is, yes the Holy Spirit is equal to the same worship offered to the Father and the Son, because the Holy Spirit is co-equal to the rest of the Godhead. The place that so many have a hard time with is that they separate the worship into compartments. They single out each for a special worship of their own and do not realize that when they worship one they worship all.

So in our worship can we single out one member of the Godhead and direct a prayer to them? I believe this to be a stumbling point for many. For me it is a matter of in my prayers I will have a response to each of the persons of the Godhead but that prayer is but a singular prayer directed to Jesus and then mediated to the rest of the Godhead by Jesus. And in that prayer there are many factors. First the Holy Spirit is moving on my heart helping me to form that prayer and adding things (interceding) that I can’t even form in words. The Father is drawing my heart to come to Jesus so that my prayer is mediated, and Jesus is giving me access to the Father.

In my worship all three persons of the Godhead are addressed and seen in their distinct personage but my worship can not be separated into a separate worship of just one person of the Godhead. My worship is corporate (pertaining to a united group, as of persons) and includes all three persons of the Godhead as one but recognizing each individual person in that Godhead.
　
So in my worship I can individually speak to each member of that Godhead but the prayer itself is directed to the one God corporately.　
　
　
　

[Pathwalker]

So you are saying that because " The Father, The Son and the Holy Spirit " are one, then we shouldn't seperate our Prayer's?

[Richard]

Pathwalker wrote

So you are saying that because " The Father, The Son and the Holy Spirit " are one, then we shouldn't seperate our Prayer's?

No I am saying that when we address any of the persons of the Godhead that we not see it as separate worship of that person but see it as the fact that we are addressing God in each case.

You can not separate the Godhead into individual persons of separate worship, they are but one God.

[Cindy]

Let me see if I understand correctly. So when we say for example, "Thank you Jesus" we are actually thanking Jesus, the Father and the Holy Spirit; and when we say, "Holy Spirit, please help me understand this", we are again actually addressing all three of them because they are really One. So the point would also be that when we pray, say to the Father, we don't have worry that we're "not paying enough attention to Jesus or the Holy Spirit in our prayer, because they are One with the Father. Is that right?

[Pathwalker]

Originally Posted by Richard

Pathwalker wrote


No I am saying that when we address any of the persons of the Godhead that we not see it as separate worship of that person but see it as the fact that we are addressing God in each case.

You can not separate the Godhead into individual persons of separate worship, they are but one God.

I totally understand that all 3 are one God, when I Pray I start out all my Prayers with Heavenly Father and I end all my Prayers In Jesus' Name, my question is when I am Praying, am I addressing the Holy Spirit as well even though I haven't mentioned the Holy Spirit in my prayers? I hope I am not confusing you!

[revtami]

Originally Posted by Cindy

I don't know why it would offend anyone Pastor Richard. What you said makes perfect sense to me! Let me put on my flame retardant suit and tell you that a very long time ago I was given a book written by Benny Hinn about the Holy Spirit. At the time I read it I wasn't sure what to think about it. I was still a baby Christian at the time. I felt something wasn't right, but couldn't put my finger on it. It's been so long ago now though that I can't even remember anything he said in it. Which is just as well since now I know that he is a false teacher. Ever since reading it however, one question keeps popping up in my mind, and that's whether or not we should worship the Holy Spirit the same way we worship the Father or the Son. I don't mean worship Him together with them, but rather to worship Him by Himself. Do you know what I mean? Usually I tend to think of this late at night, (like now LOL) so I don't have time to study it and find out and by the time I wake up the next day, the thought is out of my mind again. So could you answer that question and let us know what you think about it?

I just wanted to pop in and say that I'm enjoying this thread very much, I've always had questions about the Trinity that somehow never seem to get answered. I Also wanted to tell Cindy that the name of that book is probably "Good Morning Holy Spirit". I read that book too but like you I don't remember a word of it.

[jtheb]

"the Holy Spirit and the Father and the Son were present at the cross. "

How about "My God why have you forsaken me?"

[Richard]

Pathwalker wrote

I totally understand that all 3 are one God, when I Pray I start out all my Prayers with Heavenly Father and I end all my Prayers In Jesus' Name, my question is when I am Praying, am I addressing the Holy Spirit as well even though I haven't mentioned the Holy Spirit in my prayers? I hope I am not confusing you!

The point is not about praying but whether the Holy Spirit is present in the place of worship. Worship in Hebrew (shachah) is defined as --- to bow down. Worship in Greek (proskyneo) is defined as --- to kiss the hand to (towards) one, in token of reverence. Sp we see that worship is an act of reverance.

As to prayer it is but only a part of worship so if you don't acddress the Holy Spirit in prayer individually then you don't but that prayer is heard by Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit because they are but one God.

It isn't about who the prayer is addressed to but about the fact that worship of God includes worship of the Holy Spirit. I wrote this because there are some that teach that if you pray or address the Holy Spirit in your worship you are worshipping falsely and are placing another God before Jesus. I wanted to address this and show that worship is directed to the whole Godhead and can't be compartmentalized and possibly help some from feeling condemned because they have reverance and worship that includes the Holy Spirit.