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Apologetics Witnessing and Defending the Faith. This is also the place to discuss mid and post trib positions, and conspiracy theories. NOTE: Debate is allowed in this Forum!. We will not tolerate the mocking of our board, our members, our faith, and most importantly, our Lord. Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said to them: "Take heed that no one deceives you. Col 4:5–6 Be wise in the way you act toward outsiders; make the most of every opportunity. Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone.

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Old February 27th, 2009, 09:43 AM
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Default The Bible vs. Ellen White (founder of SDA)

The BIBLE AND ELLEN G WHITE


"When a prophet speaketh in the name of the Lord, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord hath not spoken but the prophet hath spoken presumptuously thou shalt not be afraid of him" ( Deut 18 :2 2 )


WAS THE PLAN OF SALVATION MADE AFTER THE FALL?
BIBLE NO " For as much as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish and without spot Who verily was for-ordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you." (1 Pet. 1:18-20 KJV) .
BIBLE NO " Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began." (2 Tim.1:9 ) .
BIBLE NO "In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began". (Titus 1: 2 KJV)
BIBLE NO "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world." (Eph.1 : 4 KJV).
EGW YES "The kingdom of grace was instituted immediately after the fall of man when a plan was devised for the redemption of the guilty race" (GC 347 , 1888 ed; See also EW 126, 149-151 )


AFTER THE FALL DID SATAN REPENT?
BIBLE Is silent on this matter.
EGW YES " After Satan was shut out of heaven, with those who fell with him, he realized that he had lost all the purity and glory of heaven forever. Then he repented and wished to be reinstated in heaven. He was willing to take his proper place, or any place that might be assigned him......He and his followers repented, wept and implored to be taken back into the favor of God. But no, their sin, their hate, their envy and jealousy, had been so great that God could not blot it out. It must remain to receive it's final punishment " (Spiritual Gifts Vol. 1 pp 18,19).


WHY DID EVE FALL?
EGW States that "Eve erred in wandering from her husband" (S.G.Vol.1, p 20)
BIBLE "She took her husband of the fruit thereof and, did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.". (Gen.3: 6 KJV)


WHAT FURTHER ARE WE TOLD ABOUT THE PLAN OF SALVATION?
BIBLE "According as he hath chosen us before the foundation of the world ", (Eph. 1:4)
EGW Writing on "The Plan of Salvation " we read, "Sorrow filled heaven, as it was realized that man was lost, and the world that God created was to be filled with mortals doomed to misery, sickness and death, and there was, no way of escape for the offender. The whole family of Adam must die. I saw the lovely Jesus , and beheld an expression of sympathy and sorrow upon his countenance. Soon I saw him approach the exceeding bright light which enshrouded the Father. Said my accompanying angel," He is in close converse with the Father". The anxiety of the angels seemed to be intense while Jesus was communing with his Father. Three times he was shut in by the glorious light about the Father, and the third time he came from the Father, his person could be seen. His countenance was calm, free of all perplexity and trouble, and shone with benevolence and loveliness, such as words cannot express. He then made known to the angelic host that a way of escape had been made for lost man. He told them that he had been pleading with his Father, and had offered to give his life a ransom, and take the sentence of death upon himself, and through him man might find pardon. " ( EW p . l 2 6 ; SG Vol. l, p.22,23)

Read the rest here:

http://mmoutreachinc.com/seventh_day...egw_bible.html
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Old February 27th, 2009, 09:47 AM
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Default Re: The Bible vs. Ellen White (founder of SDA)

Here's a biggie:

DID JESUS DIE TO BRING US SALVATION?

BIBLE YES " But God has not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us... " (l Thess 5 : 9, 10 KJ V ) .


EGW NO "Christ gave his life that man should have another trial, he did not die on the cross to abolish the law of God, but to secure for man a second probation" (TM 134). NOTE The word "probation" is not found in the Bible. It appears frequently in EGW and Joseph Smiths writings.



WERE SINS BLOTTED OUT AT CALVARY?


BIBLE YES "For God was in Christ restoring the world to himself, no longer counting men's sins against them but blotting them out. This is the wonderful message given us to tell others. . . (2Cor . 6: 19 LB).

EGW NO "The work of the investigative judgment and the blotting out of sin is to be accomplished before the second advent of our Lord" ( GC 4 58 ) .



DOES CHRIST' S BLOOD CANCEL SIN?
BIBLE YES "That is why Jesus suffered and died outside the city, where his blood washed our sins away" (Heb. 13 12 LB).
EGW NO "The blood of Christ, while it was to release the repentant sinner from the condemnation o f the law, was not to cancel sin. . . It will stand in the sanctuary until the final atonement" (PP 357).



DO WE STAND CONDEMNED BEFORE GOD


BIBLE NO "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus . " (Rom 8: 1 KJV) .
BIBLE NO " For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world but the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned .." (John 3:17 KJ V)
BIBLE NO "Verily, verily, I (Jesus) say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life," (John 5: 24 KLV)
EGW YES "At the time the light of health reform dawned upon us, and since that time, the questions have come home every day, Am I practicing temperance in all things? Is my diet such as will bring me in a position where I can accomplish the greatest amount of good? If we cannot answer these questions in the affirmative, we stand condemned before God, for He will hold us all responsible for the light which has shon upon our path." (CDF 20)

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Old February 27th, 2009, 09:54 AM
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Default Re: The Bible vs. Ellen White (founder of SDA)

CAN WE ATTAIN THE SINLESS STATE IN THIS LIFE?


BIBLE NO "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us." (1 Jo hn 1 : 8 - 10 KJ V .)
BIBLE NO "And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven. . . give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our sins... ," (Luke 11: 2 ,3 KJV) .
BIBLE NO " . . .there is no man which sinneth not ," (2 Chron. 6 : 36 KJ V ) .
EGW YES " Those only who through faith in Christ obey all of God' s commandments will reach the condition of sinlessness in which Adam lived before his transgression" (SDA Commentary, Vol.V I, p. 1118).
EGW YES "Everyone who surrenders fully to God is given the privilege of living without sin" (RH Sept. 27, 1906)
EGW YES "We need not retain one sinful propensity'" (SDA Commentary, Vol. V, p.1128; ibid, Vol 7, p. 943).
EGW YES "Christ died to make it possible for you to cease to sin" (RH Aug. 28, 1894).
EGW YES "To be redeemed means to cease from sin" (RH Sept. 25, 1900).
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Old February 27th, 2009, 09:57 AM
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Default Re: The Bible vs. Ellen White (founder of SDA)

DOES THE HOLY SPIRIT REVEAL NEW TRUTHS?

BIBLE YES " Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth is come, he will guide you into all truth; for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever shall hear, that shall he speak; and he will show you things to come" ( John 16 : 12 , 13 KJ V ) .
BIBLE YES "....I will ask the Father and he will give you another Comforter, and he will never leave you. He is the Holy Spirit who leads into all truth..." ( John 14:17 LB).
BIBLE YES "But I will send you the Comforter - the Holy Spirit, the source of all truth.. (John 15: 26 LB).
EGW NO " It is not the office work of the Holy Spirit to reveal the truths" (SDA Bible Commentary, Vol .6, p. lO69).

DOES THE HOLY SPIRIT GIVE US THE ABILITY TO DISCERN?

BIBLE YES "When the Holy Spirit who is truth, comes, he shall guide you into all truth. . ", (John 14:17 KJ V).
BIBLE YES "But I will send you the Comforter the Holy Spirit - the source of all truth. . . " (John 15: 26 LB) .
EGW NO "Do not feel that God has given you ability to discern what is light from heaven and what is the expression of mere human wisdom". (5T 691)
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Old February 27th, 2009, 04:16 PM
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Default Re: The Bible vs. Ellen White (founder of SDA)

Thanks! This is quite clear ...
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Old February 27th, 2009, 10:01 PM
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Default Re: The Bible vs. Ellen White (founder of SDA)

OK, gather around...we have a new enemy to fight.
Forget the RCC, for now, Let's bash the SDA's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sherib View Post


"When a prophet speaketh in the name of the Lord, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord hath not spoken but the prophet hath spoken presumptuously thou shalt not be afraid of him" ( Deut 18 :2 2 )
Jonah's prophecy failed, didn't it ?


Was Jonah, a prophet of God's ?


Quote:
WAS THE PLAN OF SALVATION MADE AFTER THE FALL?
Quote:
BIBLE NO " For as much as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish and without spot Who verily was for-ordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you." (1 Pet. 1:18-20 KJV) .
BIBLE NO " Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began." (2 Tim.1:9 ) .
BIBLE NO "In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began". (Titus 1: 2 KJV)
BIBLE NO "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world." (Eph.1 : 4 KJV).
EGW YES "The kingdom of grace was instituted immediately after the fall of man when a plan was devised for the redemption of the guilty race" (GC 347 , 1888 ed; See also EW 126, 149-151 )
Who was the first to receive Grace, from God ?

Adam & Eve ?


[quote]AFTER THE FALL DID SATAN REPENT?
BIBLE Is silent on this matter.
EGW YES " After Satan was shut out of heaven, with those who fell with him, he realized that he had lost all the purity and glory of heaven forever. Then he repented and wished to be reinstated in heaven. He was willing to take his proper place, or any place that might be assigned him......He and his followers repented, wept and implored to be taken back into the favor of God. But no, their sin, their hate, their envy and jealousy, had been so great that God could not blot it out. It must remain to receive it's final punishment " (Spiritual Gifts Vol. 1 pp 18,19).They had absolutely no excuse for causing a rebellion in heaven, in the light of God's GREAT LOVE.

And God knew that their evil would spring up again later if allowed back into heaven.


Quote:
WHY DID EVE FALL?
Quote:
EGW States that "Eve erred in wandering from her husband" (S.G.Vol.1, p 20)
BIBLE "She took her husband of the fruit thereof and, did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.". (Gen.3: 6 KJV)
When the serpent talked with Eve, it was Eve alone, with the serpent, as the Bible did not say the serpent talked with Adam.

Is that really so hard to figure out ?


Quote:
WHAT FURTHER ARE WE TOLD ABOUT THE PLAN OF SALVATION?
Quote:
BIBLE "According as he hath chosen us before the foundation of the world ", (Eph. 1:4)
I had to lok this up as I saw it was taken out of context.
1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
God had chosen us, to be Holy beings.

And Holy Beings, do not commit sin.
Quote:
EGW
Quote:
Writing on "The Plan of Salvation " we read, "Sorrow filled heaven, as it was realized that man was lost, and the world that God created was to be filled with mortals doomed to misery, sickness and death, and there was, no way of escape for the offender. The whole family of Adam must die. I saw the lovely Jesus , and beheld an expression of sympathy and sorrow upon his countenance. Soon I saw him approach the exceeding bright light which enshrouded the Father. Said my accompanying angel," He is in close converse with the Father". The anxiety of the angels seemed to be intense while Jesus was communing with his Father. Three times he was shut in by the glorious light about the Father, and the third time he came from the Father, his person could be seen. His countenance was calm, free of all perplexity and trouble, and shone with benevolence and loveliness, such as words cannot express. He then made known to the angelic host that a way of escape had been made for lost man. He told them that he had been pleading with his Father, and had offered to give his life a ransom, and take the sentence of death upon himself, and through him man might find pardon. " ( EW p . l 2 6 ; SG Vol. l, p.22,23)
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Old February 27th, 2009, 10:59 PM
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Default Re: The Bible vs. Ellen White (founder of SDA)

Quote:
OK, gather around...we have a new enemy to fight.
Forget the RCC, for now, Let's bash the SDA's.
Huh? You come to a Christian board with cultic beliefs that began with a brain-damanged woman, post all kinds of silly things that are contrary to the Bible, and what did you expect? For us to agree with you? That you would convert us? We're

Ain't either one ever gonna happen - we're not about to go along with any cult, be it SDA, RCC, or any other initials you can come up with!
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Old February 27th, 2009, 11:09 PM
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Default Re: The Bible vs. Ellen White (founder of SDA)

Quote:
Jonah's prophecy failed, didn't it ?
No. It was a judgment prophecy which always hinges on whether the people repent or not. In this case they did, so Nineveh was spared. If the people had not repented Nineveh would have been destroyed.


Quote:
Was Jonah, a prophet of God's ?

Yes.
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Old February 27th, 2009, 11:16 PM
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Default Re: The Bible vs. Ellen White (founder of SDA)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PrisonerOfHope View Post
Huh? You come to a Christian board with cultic beliefs that began with a brain-damanged woman, post all kinds of silly things that are contrary to the Bible, and what did you expect? For us to agree with you? That you would convert us? We're

Ain't either one ever gonna happen - we're not about to go along with any cult, be it SDA, RCC, or any other initials you can come up with!
My sole objective has ever been...to present the Bible truth.

That's all I done since I came on board here, to this website.
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Old February 27th, 2009, 11:22 PM
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Default Re: The Bible vs. Ellen White (founder of SDA)

BTW.....Please get the facts right.
Ellen G. White is NOT the sole founder of SDA church.

There was also Joseph Bates, who just happened to be the first to promote the Lord's Day, the 7th day sabbath to the SDA church.

Bates was challenged by a 7th day Baptist woman, by the name of Rachel, as to why, since he claimed to believe the Bble, as to why he didn't keep the 7th day sabbath.

And then the 3rd founder, was James White.


BUT, without William Miller, starting the whole thing.....there might not have been any SDA's later on.
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Old February 27th, 2009, 11:24 PM
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Default Re: The Bible vs. Ellen White (founder of SDA)

What you are saying is that SDA's base their beliefs on 2 false prophets, William Miller and Ellen White.
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Old February 27th, 2009, 11:36 PM
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Default Re: The Bible vs. Ellen White (founder of SDA)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Onsolidrock View Post
What you are saying is that SDA's base their beliefs on 2 false prophets, William Miller and Ellen White.
William Miller was not a prophet.
No one ever claimed he was either.

Ellen White is only a false prophet to people who don't know their Bibles.

IF you think EGW was false, then you have to think other prophets in the Bible were false.....there is no other way.

Prime example, is Jonah.

HIs prophecy, from God failed !!!
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Old February 27th, 2009, 11:47 PM
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Default Re: The Bible vs. Ellen White (founder of SDA)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Jay View Post
William Miller was not a prophet.
No one ever claimed he was either.
He didn't predict that Jesus was coming again in 1843 and then in 1844?

Nobody followed him expecting that to happen?

Better read your history.

Quote:
Ellen White is only a false prophet to people who don't know their Bibles.
You got that backwards. Ellen White is only a prophet to those who don't know their Bibles.

Quote:
IF you think EGW was false, then you have to think other prophets in the Bible were false.....there is no other way.
EGW proved herself to be false. God's prophets were never wrong.

Quote:
Prime example, is Jonah.

HIs prophecy, from God failed !!!
Better read it again. Did the people repent or didn't they?
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Old February 27th, 2009, 11:49 PM
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Default Re: The Bible vs. Ellen White (founder of SDA)

TJ, this isn't about bashing anyone or anything, it's about showing, proving thru Scripture that foundational teachings don't have their foundation in Scripture but in man's manipulation of Scripture to form a new religion. The Roman Empire did it, Ellen White did it, as have many others thru out the ages. It's nothing new. One of a Christian's responsibilities is to call out false teacher's. Ellen White, constantly taught directly against what Scripture teaches, completely. One is that Jesus isn't God in the flesh but just a man. Sherib, in this thread, had shown many of the direct contraditions. Just a quick glance at how this religion of Hellen White started shows that it is based on presumption that goes directly against Scripture.
....just to save face. Very sad.

Quote:
My sole objective has ever been...to present the Bible truth.

That's all I done since I came on board here
With this statement I take issue. You are here to convert the "heritics of Christianity" to SDA for that is what SDA'ers do...that is their mission. For according to SDA'er, it's only the SDA'ers who will enter heaven and everyone else is lost. It's very much like the Karaties way of teaching ( they think they're the only ones going to heaven, too, cause they keep the letter of the Law, and are also on a mission to "recrute")

TJ, you are only here to present "Bible truth" as Hellen White claims what Bible truth is. And much of what she taught isn't what the Bible teaches. You want evidence....answer this question. How is it that, with all the varying backrounds, teachings, of everyone who here who disagree with the SDA, have the exact same reasons?
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Old February 27th, 2009, 11:54 PM
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Default Re: The Bible vs. Ellen White (founder of SDA)

Jonah's prophicy didn't fail...Ninavah did in fact turn away from God, just a bit latter, thanks to Jonah. Jonah was indeed a prophet. Hellen White, may be a prophet, but not a prophet of God's.
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  #16  
Old February 28th, 2009, 12:51 AM
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Default Re: The Bible vs. Ellen White (founder of SDA)

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Originally Posted by Tim Jay View Post
OK, gather around...we have a new enemy to fight.
Forget the RCC, for now, Let's bash the SDA's.
.
Disagreeing with your interpretation of the bible and what it teaches is not bashing. This is not a catholic or SDA board. This is a christian board. It is the opinion of the staff of this board that neither the RCC or SDA are true christian churches. If you come here promoting your false interpretation of the holy scriptures, we will refute it. Do not make this accusation again.

If you have a w\question or comment about this post of mine please ask by private message, NOT in the thread. Thank you.
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Old February 28th, 2009, 12:58 AM
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Default Re: The Bible vs. Ellen White (founder of SDA)

TimJay wrote;

When the serpent talked with Eve, it was Eve alone, with the serpent, as the Bible did not say the serpent talked with Adam.


Are you saying TJ that Adam was not with Eve when the serpent talked to her because the serpent didn't speak to Adam?
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Old March 1st, 2009, 10:34 PM
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Default Re: The Bible vs. Ellen White (founder of SDA)

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Originally Posted by Lee View Post

When the serpent talked with Eve, it was Eve alone, with the serpent, as the Bible did not say the serpent talked with Adam.

Gen 3:6So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, [fn] she took of its fruit and ate, and she also gave some to her husband who was with her, and he ate.


Adam was there with her; he undoubtedly heard what the serpent had to say.
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Old March 1st, 2009, 10:45 PM
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Default Re: The Bible vs. Ellen White (founder of SDA)

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My sole objective has ever been...to present the Bible truth.

That's all I done since I came on board here, to this website.

Bible truth? We have proven time and again that Ms. White's teachings are nothing but a bunch of lies that are often contrary to the Bible!

Her teachings are clearly refuted here:

http://www.ellenwhiteexposed.com/
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Old March 1st, 2009, 11:21 PM
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Default Re: The Bible vs. Ellen White (founder of SDA)

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Originally Posted by PrisonerOfHope View Post
Gen 3:6So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, [fn] she took of its fruit and ate, and she also gave some to her husband who was with her, and he ate.


Adam was there with her; he undoubtedly heard what the serpent had to say.
I know that, You know that, but does TimJay know that, that is the question!
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  #21  
Old March 1st, 2009, 11:36 PM
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Default Re: The Bible vs. Ellen White (founder of SDA)

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OK, gather around...we have a new enemy to fight.
Forget the RCC, for now, Let's bash the SDA's.

Jonah's prophecy failed, didn't it ?

No, Jonah's prophecy did not fail. You've been told this before. It's like if I were to tell my son that if he doesnt' start listening and obeying he'll have to get disciplined. If he then changes his behavior - did my 'prophecy' not come true? It came true! Though no discipline is meted out.
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  #22  
Old March 2nd, 2009, 12:38 AM
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Default Re: The Bible vs. Ellen White (founder of SDA)

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William Miller was not a prophet.
No one ever claimed he was either.

Ellen White is only a false prophet to people who don't know their Bibles.

IF you think EGW was false, then you have to think other prophets in the Bible were false.....there is no other way.

Prime example, is Jonah.

HIs prophecy, from God failed !!!
No it didn't and if you read your Bible their repentence didn't last too awefully long. Nineveh was destroyed, I believe, within 100 years of Jonah's visit.
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Old March 2nd, 2009, 09:40 AM
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Default Re: The Bible vs. Ellen White (founder of SDA)

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No it didn't and if you read your Bible their repentence didn't last too awefully long. Nineveh was destroyed, I believe, within 100 years of Jonah's visit.
Right.
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  #24  
Old March 2nd, 2009, 01:55 PM
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Default Re: The Bible vs. Ellen White (founder of SDA)

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No it didn't and if you read your Bible their repentence didn't last too awefully long. Nineveh was destroyed, I believe, within 100 years of Jonah's visit.
Whether or not Nineveh was destroyed later and when has nothing to do with the prophecy. The prophecy hinged on the people repenting. They did= No destruction. If they hadn't = destruction.
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Old March 2nd, 2009, 04:32 PM
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Default Re: The Bible vs. Ellen White (founder of SDA)

They went back to their sinful ways so therefore the judgement fell on them. God did not put a time limit on when the judgement would fall. Since they reverted back to their old ways God judged them, therefore what Johan told them would happen did.

God forestalled judgement on Israel, but eventually they went into captivity, and were judged for rejection of Messsiah in AD 70 and AD135 and will again go through judgment in the tribulation and 2/3 of the Jewish population will be killed in that judgement. So unless you actually study the Scriptures it would be wise to listen instead of spew false things.
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