|End Times Chat A place to discuss anything that relates to the end times. Soft news and commentaries should be posted in here. We are a pre trib board. Please take positions other than pre trib to the apologetics forum. Matt 24:33 So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near, at the very doors.|
||Thread Tools||Display Modes|
Soaking Prayer and Healing Rooms
Soaking Prayer and Healing Rooms
Q. I am new to your website and am enjoying it very much. Thank you for your obedience to our Lord. I have a friend who buys into everything (blows with the wind) and I am very worried for her. She has come to me with things like soaking prayer and healing rooms and such. I have worked at finding scriptures on my own and now with the help of your wonderful website. I would appreciate knowing any information you have on these things.
A. The Phrases “soaking prayer” and “healing rooms” describe practices that are controversial in Christianity, but for different reasons.
Practitioners of soaking prayer attempt to seek out the presence of God through mystical exercises. In this sense it’s very similar to contemplative prayer and contemplative spirituality, both of which find their origins in Eastern Mysticism and came into Christianity through the New Age.
Healing rooms were developed out of the ministry of John G. Lake, a powerful evangelist and healer in the early 20th Century. Many of his followers today are of the Pentecostal persuasion, and there are hundreds of Healing Room ministries in several countries.
posted with permission
What Is Soaking Prayer?
Q. My church offers programs (for lack of a better word) on what I now understand is called contemplative spirituality. We have spiritual directors and there is a course on spirituality and also a deliverance ministry.
I am confused about the Spiritual gift of discernment. My church teaches that all people are “sensitive” but some are more so and this is different than the gift of discernment. I am what they call very sensitive and they recommend I attend something called “soaking prayer”. Do you have any experience with soaking prayer and what do you think of it?
I want to know with confidence what gift the Holy Spirit has given me and then I want to serve the Lord and His church with that gift.
A. Soaking prayer is a form of contemplative prayer that’s popular in some parts of the Church today. The objective is to clear your mind of everything until you feel a tingling or warmth that followers say is God’s Spirit. Then you just “soak it in.” The methodology used is very similar to that found in Kundalini Yoga. It’s sometimes called serpent power in Hinduism.
Nowhere in the Bible are things like this described. We’ve all had moments when we’ve experienced the presence of God, but when the need for experiences like this takes precedence over everything else it becomes dangerous because it can open us up to other spirits, as I believe you already know.
The Gift of Discernment is the supernatural ability to intuitively know when something is from the Lord or not. It doesn’t sound to me like you have it .
If you want to know for sure what your Spiritual Gift is and how the Lord would like you to use it, you don’t need to tinker around with various New Age techniques or Eastern mysticism. Instead, begin applying Romans 12:1-2 in your life. Present your whole being as a living sacrifice to Him, and learn to follow His leading. The Bible promises that you’ll find God when you seek Him with all your heart. Romans 12:2 says you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.
posted with permission
Re: Soaking Prayer and Healing Rooms
Kundalini Energy (the effects of Soaking Prayer)
LTRP Note: With the rising interest in Todd Bentley's "revival" and his use of soaking prayer, we post the following warning about soaking prayer (i.e., Kundalini energy).
"Kundalini Energy (the effects of Soaking Prayer)"
by Ray Yungen
Many Christians might have great difficulty accepting the assessment that what is termed Christian mysticism is, in truth, not Christian at all. They might feel this rejection is spawned by a heresy hunting mentality that completely ignores the love and devotion to God that also accompanies the mystical life. To those who are still skeptical, I suggest examining the writings of Philip St. Romain, who wrote a book about his journey into contemplative prayer called Kundalini Energy and Christian Spirituality. This title is revealing because kundalini is a Hindu term for the mystical power or force that underlies Hindu spirituality. In Hinduism it is commonly referred to as the serpent power.
St. Romain, a substance abuse counselor and devout Catholic lay minister, began his journey while practicing contemplative prayer or resting in the still point, as he called it. What happened to him following this practice should bear the utmost scrutiny from the evangelical community--especially from its leadership. The future course of evangelical Christianity rests on whether St. Romain's path is just a fluke or if it is the norm for contemplative spirituality.
Having rejected mental prayer as "unproductive,"(1) he embraced the prayer form that switches off the mind, creating what he described as a mental passivity. What he encountered next underscores my concern with sobering clarity:
After this, St. Romain began to sense "wise sayings" coming into his mind and felt he was "receiving messages from another."(3) He also had physical developments occur during his periods in the silence. He would feel "prickly sensations" on the top of his head and at times it would "fizzle with energy." This sensation would go on for days.Then came the lights! The gold swirls that I had noted on occasion began to intensify, forming themselves into patterns that both intrigued and captivated me ... There were always four or five of these; as soon as one would fade, another would appear, even brighter and more intense ... They came through complete passivity and only after I had been in the silence for a while.(2)
The culmination of St. Romain's mystical excursion was predictable--when you do Christian yoga or Christian Zen you end up with Christian samadhi as did he. He proclaimed:
St. Romain, logically, passed on to the next stage with:No longer is there any sense of alienation, for the Ground that flows throughout my being is identical with the Reality of all creation. It seems that the mystics of all the world's religions know something of this. (4)
Many people believe St. Romain is a devout Christian. He claims he loves Jesus, believes in salvation, and is a member in good standing within his church. What changed though were his sensibilities. He says:[T]he significance of this work, perhaps, lies in its potential to contribute to the dialogue between Christianity and Eastern forms of mysticism such as are promoted in what is called New Age spirituality.(5)
St. Romain would probably be astounded that somebody would question his claims to finding truth because of the positive nature of his mysticism. But is this "inner adviser" St. Romain has connected with really God? This is a fair question to ask especially when this prayer method has now spread within a broad spectrum of Christianity.I cannot make any decisions for myself without the approbation of the inner adviser, whose voice speaks so clearly in times of need ... there is a distinct sense of an inner eye of some kind "seeing" with my two sense eyes.(6)
This practice has already spread extensively throughout the Roman Catholic and Protestant mainline churches. And it has now crossed over and is manifesting itself in conservative denominations as well--ones that have traditionally stood against the New Age. Just as a tidal wave of practical mystics has hit secular society, so it has also in the religious world.
St. Romain makes one observation in his book that I take very seriously. Like his secular practical mystic brethren, he has a strong sense of mission and destiny. He predicts:
A book titled Metaphysical Primer: A Guide to Understanding Metaphysics outlines the basic laws and principles of the New Age movement. First and foremost is the following principle: You are one with the Deity, as is all of humanity. Everything is one with everything else. All that is on Earth is an expression of the One Deity and is permeated with Its energies.(8) St. Romain's statement was, "[T]he Ground [God] that flows throughout my being is identical with the Reality of all creation."(9) The two views are identical!Could it be that those who make the journey to the True Self are, in some ways, demonstrating what lies in store for the entire race? What a magnificent world that would be--for the majority of people to be living out of the True Self state. Such a world cannot come, however, unless hundreds of thousands of people experience the regression of the Ego in the service of transcendence [meditation], and then restructure the culture to accommodate similar growth for millions of others. I believe we are only now beginning to recognize this task.(7)
St. Romain came to this view through standard contemplative prayer, not Zen, not yoga but a Christian form of these practices. The lights were also a reoccurring phenomenon as one contemplative author suggested:
Unfortunately, this experience was not confined to St. Anthony alone. This has been the common progression into mystical awareness throughout the centuries, which also means many now entering the contemplative path will follow suit. This is not just empty conjecture. One mystical trainer wrote:Christian literature makes reference to many episodes that parallel the experiences of those going a yogic way. Saint Anthony, one of the first desert mystics, frequently encountered strange and sometimes terrifying psychophysical forces while at prayer.(10)
Without the mystical connection there can be no oneness. The second always follows the first. Here lies the heart of occultism.[T]he classical experience of enlightenment as described by Buddhist monks, Hindu gurus, Christian mystics, Aboriginal shamans, Sufi sheiks and Hebrew kabalists is characterized by two universal elements: radiant light and an experience of oneness with creation.(11)
This issue is clearly a serious one to contend with. Many individuals, using terms for themselves like spiritual director, are showing up more and more in the evangelical church. Many of them teach the message of mystical prayer.
1. Philip St. Romain, Kundalini Energy and Christian Spirituality, Crossroad Pub. Co., 1995, p. 20-21.
2. Ibid., pp. 22-23.
3. Ibid., pp. 28-29.
4. Ibid., p. 107.
5. Ibid., pp. 48-49.
6. Ibid., p. 39.
7. Ibid., pp. 75-76.
8. Deborah Hughes and Jane Robertson-Boudreaux, Metaphysical Primer, Metagnosis Pub., 1991, p. 27.
9. St. Romain, Kundalini Energy and Christian Spirituality, op. cit., p. 107.
10. Willigis Jager, Contemplation: A Christian Path, p. 72.
11. Michael J. Gelb, The How to Think Like Leonardo da Vinci Workbook, Dell Publishing, New York, NY, 1999, p. 142.
This article is an excerpt from A Time of Departing by Ray Yungen.
"I Just Had a Vision" by Kevin Reeves
Todd Bentley and Contemplative Prayer
posted with permission
Editors at Lighthouse Trails
Re: Soaking Prayer and Healing Rooms
How silly. I wonder if these people just make this stuff up as they go along??
"He who gathers money little by little makes it grow." Proverbs 13:11
Re: Soaking Prayer and Healing Rooms
I wouldn't be a bit surprised if they did Brad. I forgot to add more info about the so called "healing rooms", so I'll add some on it now. I love the title of this one, LOL
Swimming in Lake Exaggeration
John Lake and the Healing rooms
It is a good thing to pray for people to be healed. We are told to ask and it’s a wonderful thing to see your prayer answered by God. It matters not if one is a ministry, or an individual or a church that would see this take place.
Some of the names that stand out as healers are Smith Wigglesworth, William Branham and John Lake. To prove much of what they did is sometimes like looking for a quarter in a fog. The stories of these men are can be blurred between truth and fiction. These men are considered to be in their own category of “doing greater works”. We find men such as Kenneth Copeland, Roberts Lairdon, Mike Bickle and many others refer to john Lake as a prime example of exhibiting miraculous healing power, and the stories seem to be never ending. Lake is held in high esteem, as if he is not tainted by any false teaching or practice. But his past reveals otherwise. He is used as an example of modern Pentecostal power and referred to- much like William Branham and other (Pentecostal healers) are, despite the apparent controversies on certain points of false teaching.
Many have a romantic view of these healers, especially John Lake. Lake is called by some the most powerful healing evangelist of all time- which seems to be a title that should not be given to any man. The Healing Room ministry is based on the teachings of John G. Lake. When tested you will find much of it is NOT based on the Word of God but a man’s wrong interpretation of the word of God.
Lake was born in Canada March 8, 1870, when he was 16 he moved to the US. He came to faith at a Salvation Army meeting that same year. It is said that he received understanding on healing from an American Indian (John Lake Ministries- www.jglm2.atomicshops.com/whoisjglm.html) .
We are told that eight of his 16 brothers and sisters died of various diseases. Lake was introduced to John Alexander Dowie’s ministry in 1898. It is claimed that he experienced his own miraculous healing of his childhood rheumatoid arthritis, and saw his sister’s cancer and brother’s blood disease under the ministry of Dowie.
We read that he wanted to bring his sister who was dying to Dowie’s Healing Home in Chicago but it was late, so he telegraphed Dowie pleading for prayer. Dowie telegraphed back: “Hold on to God. I am praying. She will live.” That statement caused Lake to wage a spiritual attack on the power of death to not take another loved one– and we are told within the hour his sister was completely healed.
Unfortunately there is more than one story on his first wife’s illness being healed. We are told Lake's wife was healed through Dowie's prayer of faith. This seems to have happened years before he met Dowie.
Yet we are told in another story, His new wife also became sick and was on the verge of dying (April 28, 1898) and he stood his ground and would not allow it. His wife of Jennie battled for breath in her final hours when Lake finally put his foot down. He would not tolerate the enemy stealing away the mother of his children. He determined to believe God’s Word as it was revealed to him for her healing and at 9:30 a.m. he contended for her life in prayer upon which she rose up healed, praising the Lord in a loud voice. News then spread of Jennie’s healing, and Lake was sought after for his healing anointing.
This idea of the Devil claiming his wife is problematic in that believers are under the sovereign care of Jesus, it is he who has the keys of death and hell. No believer will die unless God himself allows it. The book of Job gives us insight on how God may allow the devil to afflict us but it is only by his permission, the Devil is not running around doing whatever he wants, his power and ability has to answer to God first.
Lake then began a study of divine healing. Lake moved his family to Zion, IL, in 1901, “For the purpose of studying divine healing so that can I learn it and teach it.” Lake learned healing under Alexander Dowie.
Lake’s involvement with Alexander Dowie is problematic. Dowie’s focus on healing was more than extreme, he insisted that those who prayed to be healed must relinquish their medication for faith. Lake also believed, "...one could only be healed in Dr. Dowie's Healing Home." http://www.christianhistory.org/lake.html Christian Historical Preservation Society. John G. Lake: A Man of Healing.
Most downplay the sheer eccentric ministry of Dowie, who had many doctrinal abnormalities. He founded alarge commune called Zion City in the North Chicago area in the early 1900s (the real Zion is in Israel). Zion city was to be the "New Jerusalem" and would be the capital of the world. Dowie stated: "the starting point of the restoration, the city from which God would personally direct the affairs of his kingdom." The Prophet and His Profits, The Century Magazine, Oct. 1902, p. 941). While Lake was there he was learning from him and became an elder in his Zion Catholic Apostolic church. Dowie was a self-proclaimed healer, apostle and prophet who said he came in the spirit of Elijah. In 1901 he even claimed he was Elijah, the restorer, 3 years later told his 1,000 followers in his city to expect the full restoration of apostolic Christianity (much like Peter Wagner’s group today). He believed he was chosen as the first apostle of the end- times church. Dowie went further off theologically as the years went by and established “Divine Healing Homes.” He invited the sick and crippled to come for healing ‘as his private guests. They were to renounce doctors, medication, alcohol, etc. He explained to them that all illness was the work of the devil; their cure would come from God only by his request.
In 1905 Dowie suffered a stroke which changed everything. By 1906 both his health and following declined, he lost his community of Zion; some say there was financial mismanagement. Dowie died in 1907. The influence of Dowie on Lakes ministry is evident. Because of this, and other held teachings the amount of miraculous acts of this man are brought into question.
Lake had sought God hard for the baptism of the Holy Spirit and tells us that after nine months the power of God come upon him (1907). This is a wrong Pentecostal view, we are all baptized in the Spirit when we are saved, we receive subsequent fillings. The Holy Spirit can come upon us and often does as we step out in faith in service to the Lord. It is not something we must strive for. God promises to give his Holy Spirit to those who obey him (Acts 5:32).
Here is how Lake describes it: "I prayed for the Baptism of the Holy Spirit for nine months, and if a man ever prayed honestly, and sincerely in the faith, I did. Finally one day I was ready to throw up my hands, and quit. I said, 'Lord, it may be for others, but it is not for me. You just cannot give it to me.' I did not blame God. One night a gentleman by the name of Pierce said, 'Mr. Lake, I have been wishing for a long time you would come over, and we would spend a night in prayer together. We have been praying for the Baptism for a whole year and there is not one of us baptized yet. Brother, I do not believe that you are either, so we can pray for one another." I was so hungry to pray, so I went with all intentions of praying for the rest, but I had not been praying five minutes until the light of God began to shine around me, I found myself in a center of an arc of light ten feet in diameter, the whitest light in all the universe. So white! Oh how it spoke of purity. The remembrance of that whiteness, that wonderful whiteness, has been the ideal that has stood before my soul, of the purity of the nature of God ever since.”
"Then a Voice began to talk to me out of that light. There was no form. And the Voice began to remind me of this incident, and that incident of disobedience to my parents, from a child; of my obstinacy, and dozens of instances when God brought me up to the line of absolutely putting my body, soul, and spirit upon the altar forever” (pp. 16-20 'John G. Lake - Apostle to Africa', by Gordon Lindsay).
Lake finally had a spiritual experience that CHANGED HIS LIFE- he called it the baptism of the spirit. But no one in the Bible describes it in these details. In fact, we are warned of Satan coming as angel of light, a minister of righteousness, there are too many stories of this same light being a different revelation to Joseph Smith and others. What is uncanny is the similarity of Williams Branham's experience with a light. It seems that there is a consistency with men who exhibit these great supernatural powers- this light.
“I found that my life began to manifest in the varied range of the gifts of the Spirit. I spoke in tongues by the power of God, and God flowed through me with a new force. Healings were of a more powerful order. Oh, God lived in me; God manifested in me; God spoke through me. My spirit was energized. I had a new comprehension of God's will, a new discernment of spirit, and a new revelation of God in me.”
When visiting a sick lady at her home: The Spirit said, 'I have heard your prayers, I have seen your tears. You are now Baptized in the Holy Spirit.' Then currents of power began to rush through my being from the crown of my head to the soles of my feet. The shocks of power increased in rapidity, and voltage. As these currents of power would pass through me, they seemed to come upon my head, rush through my body, and through my feet into the floor... (ibid. pp. 16-20).
This description is similar when one experiences the Kundalini force through yoga and meditiation. These same descriptions are found with those who have been attending meetings of Toronto, Brownsville and Rodney Brownes (testimony) meetings.
"Then a new wonder manifested. My nature became so sensitized, that I could lay hands on any man, or woman, and tell what organ was diseased, and to what extent, and all about it. I tested it. I went into hospitals where physicians could not diagnose a case, touched a patient, and instantly I knew the organ that was diseased, its extent, condition, and location.”
Powers like these have to be questioned especially when we know the belief system Lake was trained under and what he himself believed (we will get to this). Lake’s life is surrounded with grandiose claims of “beyond apostolic miracles” and this is where it is hard to distinguish the truth from fiction.
Lake decided to go to Africa. Some say he had no visible means of support, and was miraculously provided every step of the way. Others say Lake prospered in the business world as a real estate agent and later a insurance executive and acquired much wealth (he had a wage of $50,000 a year that he left behind). As with a number of events in his life, we have at least two different stories.
Vinson Synan, writes of John G. Lake’s Pentecostal theology being brought too Africa: “In April 1908, he led a large missionary party to Johannesburg where he began to spread the Pentecostal message throughout the nation.” Another account states he went with only four other workers and his family. These disputed facts are not isolated incidences.
His first wife (Jennie) died six months after they arrived in South Africa in 1908. Lakes wife is said to have died of overwork and malnutrition, which seems to fit the story of their not being always provided with sufficient food to live on. He stayed there for four more years raising 7 children with his sisters help. We are told in 1912, after four years of ministry in Africa, having produced 1,250 preachers, 625 congregations (some say 700), and 100,000 converts. “Miracles and healings such as had not been seen in almost 2000 years became almost commonplace”
That’s quite a feat in 4 years- that would be a preacher a day under him and a new congregation every two days. Well if you want to believe this you can. I wonder what kind of quality preachers these would be. Where did he find all these people? When Paul taught the Ephesians he went through the whole counsel of God, he was there with them for three years to teach them correctly. Anyone who has trained people for pastoral ministry or planted churches knows it is not something done quickly. All we need to do is look at the New Testament examples to see that churches were not made quickly and in great numbers. With Lake, again, we have what I believe is a greater exaggeration, not a greater work. There are too many different stories of what transpired and the numbers are not consistent
After Lake’s first wife died, he was contacted by a woman with a bad eye. Lake described the "Spirit" coming over her while she was sitting in a chair and:
"She arose from her chair, her eyes quite shut, and came in my direction. I got up and moved my chair. She walked right around and came to me. She slipped her fingers down, gave me a little chuck just like my late wife would have done, and said, ‘Jack, my Jack, God is with you all the time. Go right on. But my baby, my Teddy, I am so lonesome for him, but you pray so hard, you pray so hard" (John G. Lake: His Life His Sermons, His Boldness of Faith, Kenneth Copeland Publications, 1995, p.133)
Lake believed this to be his deceased wife talking to him, this experience was like channeling today. Lake did not seem to believe the Word said contacting the dead is wrong. He excused it by saying, "Listen, it is not dragging spirits up, and it isn’t dragging some spirits down. There is nothing about calling spirits down from God in the Word; only about calling them up out of the depths" (ibid.)
"Now I want you to fix this in your mind. The blood washed always go there [3rd heaven] and if you ever talk to anyone that is over there you will go to them. They are not going to leave the throne, but they will say, ‘Brother, come up here’. That is the only way you will ever communicate with them" (ibid.)
God forbids contact with the dead or using mediums (Deut. 18:9, 10, 11, 12) but Lake ignored the warnings and transgressed into an area that is harmful to one relationship with Christ.
When Lake returned to the US in Feb. 1913, he remarried 6 months later Florence Switzer and fathered five more children. He then began traveling. In 1914 he went to England and attended a meeting with Pentecostal leaders.While in England, Lake founded the International Apostolic Council.Upon his returned to the US, he moved to Spokane, WA. (1914). After six months he opened his own building called "Lake's Divine Healing Rooms". He began training “Divine Healing Technicians" through his organization: The Divine Healing Institute. From Feb. 1915 until May 1920, it is claimed that Lake and his Divine Healing Technicians saw over 100,000 confirmed healings. From there he went to various other cities traveling down the California coast duplicating what is now called Healing Rooms. We can see why he is in the category off doing greater works.
John G. Lake's "ministry" consisted of a mixture. He promoted New Age/ Eastern philosophies, contact with the dead (called necromancy), out of body experiences, church in dominionism (known as Latter Rain) and word faith teaching that we can all become a god. You could honestly say he was the Benny Hinn of his time.
The Dominion Theology belief was the basis for this ministry, (Latter Rain-Kingdom Now, and Manifested Sons of God.) This belief system teaches the church will be perfected through the apostles and prophets, the church will then affect the world, then Jesus returns to a pure and powerful bride.
The "dominion" is to be exercised over all things, people, sickness and even Satan. Lake claimed that sin was the cause of sickness and anyone who went to a doctor was like a heathen and yet he suffered from colds, a nervous breakdown and even died from a stroke in 1935.
“Lake believed his generation missed the mark by not realizing the true definition of apostolic ministry. Some attempted to build an apostolic church around the doctrine and manifestation of healing power.
Others attempted to establish the apostolic church around the restoration of the gifts and speaking in tongues, while some attempted to create and establish the apostolic order around the doctrine of holiness.
This next explanation should explain exactly what Lakes vision was about and how it coincides with the apostolic prophetic movement that is currently in the church and trying to mislead her.
“True apostolic ministry is a fulfillment of John 14:12, with the Holy Spirit performing the same works through the church that He did through the life and ministry of the Lord Jesus Christ. There is a ministry of perfection coming to the church that will prepare her for the return of the Bridegroom.”
(you can see this same teaching in the third wave groups and prophetic ministries).
“He taught in Joel 2:25, the Lord makes a wonderful promise to restore all that the palmer worm, cankerworm, caterpillar, and the locust have destroyed (KJV). These four stages of a maturing locust are used to prophetically symbolize the way that the spirit of the antichrist would attack the church. In Joel 2:25, the Lord makes a wonderful promise to restore all that the palmer worm, cankerworm, caterpillar, and the locust have destroyed (KJV). These four stages of a maturing locust are used to prophetically symbolize the way that the spirit of the antichrist would attack the church.”
The Lord’s promise to restore the apostolic church began through the ministry of Martin Luther and has now matured to a level so that this generation can expect the complete restoration of biblical apostolic ministry.”
When the day of Pentecost had fully come, the Holy Spirit descended upon them and watered the seed within their hearts, producing the life of Christ and the apostolic church. This same process must be realized in this church age as well.” (Website- IFM International fellowship of ministries
This is pure Latter Rain speech and one who has followed the disappointments of prophet hopefuls that spoke the same such as Paul Cain and the Kansas group of prophets, they know this is not good.
"Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father” Lakes rendition of John 14:12, if true left out 99.99 percent of the church throughout all time except for the elite chosen ones, like Him.
According to Lake, “the truest definition of the apostolic church could be expressed in the awesome and reverential experience known as the baptism of the Holy Spirit.” While Lake rightly pointed out that the baptism was not just a gift of God, but God himself. Teaching that one did not become a dwelling place of God until they had this experience is contrary to Scripture (see Eph.1:13) – this is why Paul asked a certain group in Acts 19:2 if they received the Holy Spirit when they believed. Because that is when we are baptized by the Holy Spirit (See also Eph. 4:30; Acts 10:47,15:8).
While Lake was feverishly burning up for more of God (especially an experience through power), God asks that we give more of ourselves to him so that the life of Christ that is already implanted in every believer can have its way. In other words we need to die to self, our desires, our ways.
Lake is known as a man who walked in the revelation of "God in man." He believed that a Spirit-filled Christian should see the same type of ministry Jesus did while he was on earth, and that this could only be accomplished by seeing themselves as God saw them. His belief was that Christians are to become "gods." Lake a former Methodist believed in entire sanctification. Along with salvation, was a complete deliverance from illness.
Quotes on Lake from DesVoignes research are quite shocking, considering the respect people have of him.
"It is not honoring to Jesus Christ that sickness should possess us. We do not want disease. We want to be gods. Jesus said, 'I said ye are gods' (John 10:34). It is with the attitude of gods in the world that Jesus wants the Christian to live" (John G. Lake: His Life His Sermons, His Boldness of Faith, Kenneth Copeland Publications, 1995, p. 13).
'I said ye are gods' is a Scripture that is often taken out of context with those who are not biblically astute. Jesus want us to have an attitude of a servant, not a God (Phil.2 tells us this is the mind of Christ). No apostle ever taught the church that we are gods. But this is repeated today by Mormons –Occultists and word faith cultists. It is far more than just a mistake, it is what the Bible calls heresy.
Ps.82 and John 10:34 needs to be examined it in context. Jesus was scolding them, not affirming their nature. This teaching happens to distort man’s nature and relationship to God. Anyone who teaches this should not be accepted as a good teacher of God’s word because it does not accurately represent what God has said about humanity and misrepresents the ministry of the Holy Spirit.
Lake said: "The power of God, the Holy Ghost, is the Spirit of Dominion. It makes one a god." (ibid. p. 13) God does not see us as gods or an incarnation. Neither do we see the apostles exercising dominion as Lake taught.
Lake: "I want you to hear what Jesus said about himself. God was in Christ, wasn't He? An incarnation. God is in you, an incarnation, if you were born again. You are incarnate." (ibid. p. 196).
Incarnate from what? We did not exist as God before we were born which is what this means with Jesus. Lake did not understand the incarnation.
Lake: "For God's purpose through Jesus Christ is to deify the nature of men and thus forever make them like unto, ... Thus he becomes the Son of god, a Savior and redeemer forever" (Ibid. p. 304).
Can man become an only begotten son, which makes him the savior? Again Lake exhibited a poor and heretical understanding of the core teachings of God and man. "I am the Lord, and there is no other; besides Me there is no God” (Isaiah 45:5-7) “And there is no other God besides Me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none except Me. Turn to Me and be saved, all the ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is no other."(Isaiah 45:21-22).
Lake is mentioned as one of Kenneth Copeland's favorite mentors (besides his discipler Kenneth Hagin), Copeland states of Lake:
"The thing that was forfeited in the garden was regained. God gave him [Adam] dominion over the works of His hand. God made him His understudy, His king to rule over everything that had life. Man was master. man lived in the realm of god. He lived on terms of equality with God. God was a faith God. All God had to do was to believe that the sun was, and the sun was. All God had to do was to believe that the planets would be, and they were. Man belonged to God's class of being - a faith man, And he lived in the creative realm of God, " ("John G. Lake, " Kenneth Copeland Publications, Fort Worth, Texas 1994, p. 66.)
No one who has the ability to become a God, for the simple reason that God is not created – as humans we are. Adam was never to become a god, nor was he made an equal of God. There is no such thing as a creative realm of God, for God transcends anything he has created and is not limited by it. Neither do we as believers regain a rulership over creation. God did not create by faith, God did not create because of His faith. God created by the word of His power, not by faith in His belief.
Deify mans nature to make us the son of God? How is this possible when the Bible speaks of the ONLY begotten son of God as God himself? What kind of teaching is this. Lake teaching humans attain godhood corrupts everything else – in fact how can the God of truth honor such a lie with his power?
When you have such distorted beliefs of the Bible it affects how you look at other religions. What did Lake say about Eastern philosophies:
"Many of the ancient philosophies have marvelous light. One of the Indian philosophies, Bhagavad, were written five hundred years before Isaiah. In it they predicted the coming of a Son of God, a Redeemer, who was to come and redeem mankind."
Buddha presented his philosophy five hundred years before Jesus. Pythagoras wrote four thousand years before Christ. In each one you will find many of the teachings of Jesus.”
“The teachings of Jesus were not unique in that they were all new. They were new because they contained something that none of the rest possessed. It was the divine content in the word of Jesus Christ that gave his teachings their distinguishing feature from the other philosophies" (John G. Lake: His Life His Sermons, His Boldness of Faith, Kenneth Copeland Publications, 1995, p.304)
Can false religions have a "marvelous light.” As Christians do we not believe light is found only in God’s word, Jesus being the true light. How can a book teach anything about God if the people who wrote do not know God? The Bhagavad Gita is Hindu teaching; it does not predict a Jewish Messiah. Buddha did not teach about God. You will find none of the teachings of Jesus in their books, what you may find is what is left known in mans conscience of right and wrong according to Romans 1:21-32. Can anyone come to know Jesus Christ through these other religions teachings? These books should not be used or spoken of as valid truth.
If what Lake stated is true, then why did Jesus say "All who ever came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them. "I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture” (John 10:8-9).
Lake had much to say about being consumed with God and his presence, but this clearly is not the mind of Christ. We are told: “And do not be conformed to this world ...” (Rom. 12:2)
Deut. 4:2: “Do not add to what I command you” which is what is written in the Bible. Paul writes the samein 1 Cor. 4:6: “…that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, "Do not go beyond what is written."
Is this is what the baptism of the spirit did to Lake? We must question teaching these concepts that would deny the Bible as the only word of God as complete and offer other religions as having similar teaching. This is what we call inter-spirituality.
pt2. Reviving the Revival of John Lake?
Posted with permission:
Re: Soaking Prayer and Healing Rooms
Reviving the Revival of John LakeDiscrepancies are not few but abundant when it comes to what Lake did, when he did it and the amount of people he healed. While in Spokane one-hundred thousand healings were reported during a period of five years.
We also read “Dr. Lake indicated that at least one hundred thousand people were ministered to each year either by car, telephone, telegraph, letter, or cable” (The Healer: Dr. John Graham Lake).
That is 100,000 people a year he saw individually. That is incredible- this is approx. 333 a day (with 1 day a week off). This would be 15 people each hour for twenty hours each day. And the number would be far greater if he had a regular day of 10 hours; if you want to believe this you can- it certainly stretches ones credulity.
Yet we are told in his biography a different number “Open each weekday from 10 to 4. Personal interviews and ministry”
“In a general letter published Saturday, February 8, 1919, in the Spokesman Review, Dr. Lake indicated that they ministered to an average of two hundred people per day in the Healing rooms (John G. Lake Biography http://www.enterhisrest.org/charismata/lake_biography.pdf)
this makes it only 6 hours a day. with 200 per day is nearly one person every two minutes.
When Lake was in South Africa, the crowds were reportedly so great that he was unable to pray for everyone that needed prayer. According to one report- Roberts Liardon who tells the stories of the healers” “Can you see this rock that I’m standing next to? Here’s what I’m going to do. I’m going to lay my hands on this particular rock. I’m going to ask God to anoint this place and any of you that are sick just come up here and touch this rock…and…the power that I leave in it will go into you and make you whole.” (http://www.cultlink.com/sentinel/gods-generals.htm)
When Lake left Spokane to go to Portland, Oregon in May of 1920, the Healing Rooms there ceased. Lake returned to Spokane in 1931, and found that the work he had started no longer existed. One can only wonder why after only 5 years he closed down the rooms to move to another city if it was so successful.
Kenneth Copeland on John G Lake:
”Throughout this book, but especially chapters 29 Science of Healing and 30 Results of Believing Prayer are sprinkled testimonies presented to the Spokane Better Business Bureau.
Lake shares in chapter 31 The Power of Divine Healing that his co-worker in S Africa prayed for days under a thorn tree for the end to a fever epidemic that had killed a quarter of the population in 1 month in an area of 350 miles. That man prayed until he at last needed prayer support. They witnessed a flock of demons, which his prayer partner cursed back to where they had come from. Immediately the epidemic stopped.
In chapter 31 Lake also shares a testimony of a creative miracle of a tubercular limb that was so decayed that the physician could put his finger through the joint. The healing was so unusual that John Alexander Dowie of Chicago interviewed the woman. Lake also shares that God healed him (self) from both crippling rheumatism and blindness. (http://www.schizophreniainfo.info/healing_testimonies_of_physical_healings.htm)
“He proved to local physicians that the germs would not live on his body due to the Holy Spirit alive in Him. He actually verified this under a microscope showing that the germs died upon contact with his body. Those who witnessed the experiment stood in amazement as Lake gave glory to God explaining that: “It is the law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus. I believe that just as long as I keep my soul in contact with the living God so that His Spirit is flowing into my soul and body, that no germ will ever attach itself to me, for the Spirit of God will kill it.”
Does this mean that those who get sick do not have the Holy Spirit in their body to keep them healthy? Why do we find saints getting sick in the bible? Lakes teaching was divine health not divine healing.
On numerous Healing Rooms websites we find them saying “because of his resurrection revelation, had a deadly plague germ die in his hand”
This was no germ “To demonstrate, he had them take live bubonic plague germs still foaming from the lungs of a newly dead person and put them in his hands and then examine the germs under a microscope. They were dead.”
Paul was given a thorn in the flesh because of his revelations, Lake had a revelation and no germs live in him in Africa, but in the US there was a different story. Greg DesVoignes research cites the “Spokesman Review,” April 24, 1929 “Frequently he had to pause to cough or sneeze, as he was suffering from a cold. Once he had to go out into the hall to stop a spasm of coughing."
Lake claimed that sin was the cause of sickness and adopted Dowies view that anyone who went to a doctor was as a heathen. Lake had this belief as the basis for his divine health "It is not honoring to Jesus Christ that sickness should possess us. We do not want disease. We want to be gods" (John G. Lake: His Life His Sermons, His Boldness of Faith, Kenneth Copeland Publications, 1995, p.13).
One cannot find this teaching among the apostles, Epaphroditus who ministered to Paul had become sick (Phil.2:25) Paul said: “Trophimus I have left in Miletus sick” (2 Tim. 4:20).
The teaching for the early church in scripture was “Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord” (James 5:14). People did get sick and that is why, besides these instructions from James, one of the gifts of the spirit was to heal sickness. In conclusion Lakes divine health (which Copeland also believes he is living in) is not biblical and completely untrue, even in Lakes own life.
Lake had dubbed this belief "This new science is known as pneumatology: the science of spirit..." but it is more like a "mind science," and has nothing to do with the a study of the Holy Spirit.
Lake also had outrageous claims on his ability to diagnose sickness: "My nature became so sensitized that I could lay my hands on any man or woman and tell what organ was diseased and to what extent” "Lake tested this new wonder by going to hospitals and touching patients to determine what their ailments were. And even to make it more challenging, most of them were cases that even the physicians could not diagnose" (John G. Lake: His Life His Sermons, His Boldness of Faith, Kenneth Copeland Publications, 1995, p. xxi).
This is something we do not see any apostle do and is in that category of greater works. But there are stories of healing failures of Lake carried by the local papers that cannot be ignored.
Lake: “I can see as my spirit discerns the future and reaches out to touch the heart of mankind and the desire of God, that there is coming from heaven a new manifestation of the Holy Spirit in power, and that new manifestation will be in sweetness, in love, in tenderness, and in the power of the Spirit, beyond anything your heart or mind ever saw. The very lightning of God will flash through men’s souls. The sons of God will meet the sons of darkness and prevail. (http://www.godsgenerals.com/person_j_lake.htmClearly this is church dominionism of which the Bible has nothing to say about. Lake had believed in another Pentecost that would be utterly transforming and his descriptions have been used and abused by many.
Chicago Tribune, June 14, 1895, p. 7- “Beloved, God is calling men and women to a holier consecration, to a higher place in God, and I am one of God’s candidates for that holy place in God. I want to get to the throne of God… And that is the experience that is going to make the sons of God in the world. That is the reason they will take the world for Jesus Christ, and the Kingdom will be established, and they will put the crown on the Son of God, and declare him, ‘King of kings and Lord of lords…" (underline mine)
A dominionist viewpoint is found through Lakes writings. When we understand the Latter Rain heresy that began in the early 1900’s we see exactly what Lake means by these statements.
The Bible teaches that we are sons of God when we believe (Jn.1:12) the teaching of the Latter Rain makes “manifest sons” an experience. This bears repeating-“The power of God, the Holy Ghost, is the Spirit of Dominion. It makes one a god. It makes one not subject to the forces of the world, or the flesh, or the devil. These are under the Christians feet." (John G. Lake: His Life His Sermons, His Boldness of Faith, Kenneth Copeland Publications, 1995, p. 13)
Lake explains “Five years ago when my heart was broken, in the agony of my heart I disappeared into the woods of Oregon for 21 days with God, and he Showed me a church in Spokane that would be as pure as Jesus Christ. When it will come, I don’t know, but it will never come from a lot of slop and evangelistic mess, but when we live our lives on God’s alter" (The Spokesman Review, April 22, 1929).
It is good to desire holiness to do good works but can a church ever be perfect as Jesus without the final transformation of the resurrection? To say that it will be in Spokane seems to come from his own desire of the heart of the situation he was dealing with. Some of this is reminiscent of Joseph Smith who also found himself in the woods visited by Jesus and an angel and found the church corrupt, needing restoration.
I did find a contradiction of Lakes desire and what he himself did. He had “ Public services on Sunday at The Masonic Temple at 11 a.m. and 3 p.m. (John G. Lake Biography http://www.enterhisrest.org/charisma..._biography.pdf
This is a problem, considering what the Masons are about, why would they let him use their facility, better yet, why would you want to hold you church meetings there?
“Such was the power of his anointing that he wrote about it as being like the lightning of Jesus: “You talk about the voltage from heaven and the power of God! Why there is lightning in the soul of Jesus! The lightnings of Jesus heal men by their flash! Sin dissolves and disease flees when the power of God approaches!” Lake would also compare the anointing of God’s Spirit to the power of electricity. Just as men had learned the laws of electricity, Lake had discovered the laws of the Spirit. And, as God’s “lightning rod,” he would rise within God’s calling to electrify the powers of darkness and solidify the body of Chris.” (God’s Generals http://www.godsgenerals.com/person_j_lake.htm)
Once again we have an interesting correlation to the manifestations of the false revivals in our midst today. Rodney Browne, Toronto, Pensacola all describe God’s power and anointing like electricity.
We are also told that Lake “had been influenced by the ministry of Sister Marie Woodworth-Etter, and himself influenced countless ministers.http://peterwade.com/archive/pw114.shtml) Positive Words Newsletter- online#114 -- 3rd April 2006)
Maria Woodsworth-Etter (1844-1924) was a preacher in the holiness movement in the 1880’s. She gained a reputation by falsely prophesying that San Francisco would be destroyed by an earthquake in 1890. She promoted in her meetings a religious experience she called the “power.” She would often go into a trance during the services, standing still (frozen) with her hands raised in the air for more than an hour. People were slain in the spirit and other strange phenomenon occurred. Certainly not a good influence any more than Dowie.
Lake also exhibited nearly identical descriptions of what we have seen in today’s revival meetings of Rodney Browne and Toronto early on in his ministry “In 1908 I preached in Pretoria South Africa, when one night God came over my life in such power, in such streams of liquid glory and power, that it flowed consciously off my hands like streams of electricity. I would point my finger at a man and that stream would strike him. When a man interrupted the meeting. I would point my finger at him and say, "Sit down!". He fell as if struck, and lay there for three hours…" (ed. Note: Just like the stories of Rodney Browne).
“I ministered to sixty-five sick who were present, and the streams that were pouring through my hands were so powerful the people would fall as they were hit… And the Spirit said, "You do not need to put your hands on them. Keep your hands a distance away’. And when I held my hands a foot from their heads they would crumple and fall in a heap on the floor” (John G. Lake: His Life His Sermons, His Boldness of Faith, Kenneth Copeland Publications, 1995, p.488)
Copeland writes-"At other times the anointing on him became so strong that people would fall under its power simply by coming within six feet of him." (John G. Lake: His Life His Sermons, His Boldness of Faith, Kenneth Copeland Publications, 1995, p. xxi)
While spirits are often passed on by the laying on of hands and various other means, this is not how the Holy Spirit was or is passed on to believers. There is no Biblical basis for a transmission of a mantle or transferring an anointing from one person to another. There is no evidence that a transfer took place when apostles laid hands on people (1 Timothy 4:14 and 2 Timothy 1:6). The Holy Spirit was not coming from them to others. The laying on of hands was a public recognition by them, a confirmation of what the Holy Spirit has either already done or wants to do (Acts 6:6; 8:17; 13:3; Hebrews 6:2). Acts 19 tells us that when Paul laid hands on some believers from Ephesus the Spirit came (Gr. Epi), upon them, from above, not (Gr. dia), through him. The Spirit did not come by or through Paul’s hands, but it came upon the disciples from above, just as He did on Pentecost. Jesus sends the holy Spirit- not man.
“John G. Lake moved in a profound anointing of the Spirit of God. Healing, deliverance and miracles were a steady occurrence in his ministry. Anyone reading of the great things that God did through Lake would desire to walk in such an anointing. We, individually and as a movement, desire to appropriate and walk in this type of mantle. There is a truth to the fact that anointings can be "handed on" through the laying on of hands. (See Num. 34:9) This "handing on" of anointings, of course, must be orchestrated by the Spirit of God. www.wordatwork.org
At least if you’re going to try and prove this unbiblical teaching you should get the Scripture citation right. Actually, there is no biblical basis for this. It is a tradition of Pentecostalism, especially found in the Latter Rain. There is only one anointing. The only one who is recorded asking for the anointing was Simon the sorcerer (Acts 13:6a Jew whose name was Bar-Jesus,) it was not a good thing.
There are only a few mentions of hands being laid and the Spirit in the Old Testament, if one does not read it carefully they can come to the wrong conclusion. For example Deut. 34:9: “Now Joshua the son of Nun was full of the spirit of wisdom, for Moses had laid his hands on him.” This would seem as if he received the spirit by Moses laying hands on him. However if we read the other account we find he already had God’s Spirit in him and that is why Moses laid his hand on him, to confirm his leadership position. Numbers 27:18: “And the LORD said to Moses: "Take Joshua the son of Nun with you, a man in whom is the Spirit, and lay your hand on him.” Vv.19-20 tells us it was, to” inaugurate him in their sight” and give him some of his authority.
Another account is in Numbers 11:17: "Then I will come down and talk with you there. I will take of the Spirit that is upon you and will put the same upon them; and they shall bear the burden of the people with you, that you may not bear it yourself alone.” It would seem that the same spirit that was put on Moses would be distributed to others, but not from him.
Num 11:25 “Then the LORD came down in the cloud, and spoke to him, and took of the Spirit that was upon him, and placed the same upon the seventy elders; and it happened, when the Spirit rested upon them, that they prophesied, although they never did so again” this was a one time event to endorse their leadership role to be a help to Moses.
Joe McIntyre (on behalf of the board of IFM) International fellowship of ministries – advancing the vision of John Lake tells us “Wilford Reidt, John G. Lake's son-in-law, (who headed this organization for many years) laid hands on many of our members for a transfer of anointing”. (underline mine) He then assures us that no one can make exclusive claims to have Lake's anointing or to be the designated heir of his mantle.
Among those stories when they came to the Hawaiian Islands -Pastors Steve and Fay Johnson: Pastor Steve left before we arrived. God touched Sister Fay with a double portion enough to share with Brother Steve.”
That’s an interesting concept; that the Holy Spirit is in a limited supply .I would think many would have a problem with descriptions that are never hinted in the Scripture of the New Testament.
John writes “the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you” (1 John 2:27). He continually indwells the believer; He is with us and we received Him from Jesus. So there is no need for us to transfer Him to another believer (even if we could). You cannot impart the Holy Spirit who is God. It was Jesus who sent the Holy Spirit at Pentecost and He is the one who anoints us today- we are not little Jesus’ able to do this or everything He can.
Jackie Alnor mentions in an article that cites Liardons video on the Pentecostal preachers “And John G. Lake’s spirit would leave his body and minister to people in the spirit realm.” Not surprising that Kenneth Copeland has a similar story – he says “My spirit was coming out of my body” as he carried on a conversation with his god – god responded “ you were just about to come out of your body and I was going to allow you to minister that congregation with out your BODY,” but he blew the opportunity.
So where is this teaching in the Bible? Its not, but it is found in Occult circles, its called astral travel. While Lake was in Africa, we are told his soul traveled to an asylum in Wales where a violent insane woman was confined.
"Suddenly, I seemed out of the body...it seemed as if I were passing through the atmosphere observing everything but moving with great lightning-like rapidity," Lake wrote.
"I was inside the institution without waiting for the doors to open and present at the side of a cot on which lay a woman."
“Lake laid his hands upon her head and commanded in the name of Jesus that the demon spirit possessing her be cast out and that she be healed by the power of God.”
"In a moment or two, I observed a change coming over her countenance," Lake narrated. "It softened and a look of intelligence appeared. Then her eyes opened, and she smiled up in my face. I knew she was healed." Doctors who later confirmed her recovery had no explanation to offer.” (Adventures in God by John G. Lake)
It is these kind of mystical/Occult experiences that have me question the validity of any of his stories and miracles.
Re: Soaking Prayer and Healing Rooms
“After fasting for 40 days, God directed Cal Pierce to re-dig this healing well that John G. Lake had dug. On May 29, 1999 he gathered over 100 intercessors from all parts of Washington, Idaho, Oregon and Utah to re-dig this healing well.”
John Lake’s "Healing Rooms" TodayThe transferable anointing[s]
”Once the healing well had been dug, it was time to fill it with "fresh pure water so that all could come and drink from it". They began to train a ministry team to pray for the sick and re-opened the healing rooms at the same location, under John G. Lake's ministry, more than 70 years ago” (Singapore website)
Cal Pierce, and his wife Michelle, moved to Spokane in 1997 from California, we are told Cal is led of the lord to bring to the world the teachings of John G. Lake. According to the Healing Rooms Ministries website: “Cal visited Lake's grave site once each month for over one year to pray … On July 22, 1999 the Spokane Healing Rooms of John G. Lake were re-opened in the same location they were 80 years ago.”
On another of their websites “Having studied the revivals, Cal had read about John G. Lake's ministry in Spokane. He visited Lake's grave site once each month for over one year to pray.”
Shades of Benny Hinn visiting kathryn Kuhlmanns’ gavesite. One would think this is a strange thing to even make public except for the fact of Lakes own openness to having the dead contact him (found in pt.1).
“Dr. Tessler and other founders of the Healing Rooms of Raleigh traveled to Spokane to meet Healing Rooms Ministry founder Cal Pierce.
‘“Dr Tessler says Pierce ended up going to Spokane, Washington, where Evangelist John G. Lake had healing rooms four decades earlier. “He looked for a church where he could fast and pray all night and apparently couldn’t find one, so he went to the actual grave site of John Lake and prayed there. He said, ‘Lord, if a dead man can be thrown on the bones of Elisha and be healed, then I’m asking for the anointing that is on these bones of John G. Lake’” (Healing Rooms Raleigh Doctor Incorporates Prayer and Science To Bring Healing By: Steve Eastman http://www.worldnewspaperpublishing....loc=TRW&ID=357) (underline mine)
Here we have Pierce doing the very same forbidden practice that Benny Hinn has done- visiting the grave of the dead and seeking an anointing from their grave. His response of citing Elisha’s bones is ridiculous. Since this was a one time miracle with a meaning for the nation of Israel, it was never repeated. The person who was resurrected was not anointed by the bones of Elisha. There is no lingering anointing in gravesites and it is hardly reasonable to think God would direct someone to visit Lakes grave when we are told to seek the Lord and He gives his holy Spirit to those who obey. If we use their own interpretation, one might ask “What person did Lake visit for his anointing?”
“According to Dr. Tessler, Cal Pierce established his healing rooms in the same Rookery building Lake had used. “They went in and said the anointing was so powerful in those rooms. One room, they said they could not even go into without falling down. In that room, which they called the silver room because of the silver carpet, one of the intercessors saw an angel standing in the corner. Cal asked the Lord, ‘What does this angel mean?’ and the Lord said, ‘This angel has been waiting 80 years for someone to come and raise up the healing rooms again.’” (ibid.)
An angel is waiting in the room? Not only is there a lingering anointing at his gravesite but it is also in this building he left over 70 years ago. That is some story.
We are told on various of their websites this is the same Rookery building and room.
This building is the same Building Lake used from 1914 to 1919 for the healing rooms. (Hawaii website)
On their main site (Cal Pierce) Under -Frequently asked questions about HEALING ROOMS MINISTRIES 4. When you were in the Rookery Building, was that the same building John G. Lake had healing rooms in?
“No. When we first moved into the building in 1999 we believed it was the same building. We indicated that on our web site. We weren’t there but a number of months when I sent one of our team members to the Spokane Library to research some things about Lake’s ministry. When the team member returned, she said that she discovered that the building Lake was in had a fire in it in 1933 and was replaced in 1934 with the building we were in.”
If it is not the same building or room then how is there an anointing in the building that affected them to fall? This brings into question numerous experiences that are used as valid stories.
They also need to change their web sites to indicate it is not the same building as Lake’s healing rooms.
Todd Bentley has numerous angelic appearances, he states:
”I first saw the angel called Healing Revival on December 5 of 2000 in Grant’s Pass. The angel came to me again in Albany the next February. He stood in the church service with his body going through the ceiling of the church. Then the Lord told me the angel’s name and that he was the same angel I saw in Grant’s Pass earlier. God also revealed to me that this angel was involved in the ministry of John Lake, William Branham, and John Knox in Scotland. This angel, the Lord said, is from the North West Healing Revival and is manifesting again as a sign that God is restoring the Voice of Healing revival and opening up the ancient wells” ANGELIC HOSTS Revivalist Todd Bentley
Both lake and Branham had unusual experiences that included angels and many are today. Bentley has an angel endorsing the Healing rooms
Cal pierce says, “The church has been crying out for this healing anointing to return. After fasting for 40days, God directed me to re-dig this healing well that John G. Lake had dug. On May 29, 1999 we gathered over 100 intercessors from all parts of Washington, Idaho, Oregon and Utah to re-dig this healing well.”
I don’t understand…we don’t have enough healers? Nearly every TV evangelist is a healer- one would think everyone would be well twice by now with all the healings going on TBN, Daystar and the traveling crusades.
IAHR leadership Cal Pierce “Healing is the undergarment that God’s army will wear to support the armor for battle.” “All of the provision of the cross must impact the body of Christ. God is raising up an end-time army that must get out of the tent if it is going to march to the battle and take the harvest. This army will not march to the battle on crutches. It will have signs and wonders following it.”
This sounds identical to Joel’s Army that we have heard so much about from the Vineyard churches that were under John Wimber and the Kansas prophets under Paul Cain?
Jill Austin runs the "Passion and Fire" conferences spreading Toronto manifestations, she is also part of the prophetic team at Mike Bickle’s International House of Prayer (formerly of the Kansas city Prophet group)
Se has prophesied “HEALING ROOMS; These will explode all over the world. Also healing teams will go to hospitals and to places in the world where epidemics are breaking out." (October 2000)
"The Lord is about to release His faithful hidden ones in these last days as the rage of Satan increases. He is bringing this new realm of glory to earth to bring in a great harvest of souls through signs, wonders and miracles, using broken and weak vessels like us." (On the healing Rooms website- Prophetic Word - Jill Austin - 'Master Potter Ministries')
Jill Austin at the Toronto Airport Church (January 1996) also gave a "prophecy" where a new Government being brought forth to rule the world. She likens it to the new Round Table of Knights: “And I feel like ...what the Lord is doing on government is He's taking His apostolic thumb, and He's placing it down as a governmental movement. He's crying out for you to be willing to be Knights of the Round Table. ... He says, 'I'm going to take different men and women of different denominations and tribes and put them together like in Knights of the Round Table, internationally.' He says, 'One reason I'm doing that is there's going to be a worldwide God internet ...I'm giving you fresh strategy.' He says, 'Just like the world, moving underground like with the Mafia or like Hitler.' What He's going to do is give you a Holy Spirit espionage. He's going to start just showing you the purposes of the living God for different nations and for different cities…. These boards will be international and interdenominational by nature, but the thumbprint of God will awaken the apostolic power within the church”
Shades of Knights Templar! As if she doesn’t know the plans on the table by John Wimber or Peter Wagner and his apostolic government- it does not take a prophet to see where a part of the church is headed or led.
It is not surprising to see other Vineyard pastors involved in the Healing rooms. One is Randy Clark who was responsible for launching in 1994, the “Toronto Blessing.”
Then there is this prophetic word from Barbara Wentroble at the Northwest Intercessors conference, (March 10, 2001 Portland, Oregon).
“And I heard the Spirit of the Lord say, This is an hour that I am going to release an anointing upon My spiritual explorers in this area. They are going to discover rivers of water, and they are going to discover healing streams.
This is an hour I am going to cause the streams to begin to come together in this area. And even as the streams and the tributaries begin to join together, I am going to release a power in this area, and it shall be a power that shall cause healings and miracles to be released. I purpose this area to be an area of healing.
Healing centers from city to city and region to region. There will be healing cities. And many will come into those healing waters and they shall find healing, and they shall find restoration. Know that as I release My healing anointing, not just the church is going to come, but know that I shall bring the desperate.
I shall bring those that do not know Me, but they are desperate for a miracle. And they shall come into those healing centers, and I shall release my healing, restoring power. It will cause a mighty harvest to break open in this area.
For even as it was in the past when I sent explorers into this territory to find, and they found sources of water, I say My spiritual explorers in this area are going to find healing waters and healing streams. Im going to loose the waters of revival in this area. Im going to change the statistics of this area.” (sic) https://secure.healingrooms.com/inde...c=region&l=us6
Where has we heard of healing waters and healing streams? From Benny Hinn who was going to build a healing center in Texas in 2000. Rod Parsley prophesied it would be the easiest thing he would ever do…. we are still waiting. This prophecy by Wentroble who is associated with the Elijah list and is associated with Peter Wagners false new apostolic group is of the same genre. Wentroble is part of the Apostolic Council of Prophetic Elders which includes others like Dutch Sheets, Mike Bickel, Mike and Cindy Jacobs, Tommy Tenney, Bart Pierce- who all under the Apostolic leadership of C Peter Wagner. She spoke at Wagner’s Apostolic Prophetic Alignment: on the topic of Taking Dominion Now: Unlocking Strategy for Kingdom Advancement. As far as the prophecy- it is typical latter rain speech, releasing his anointing, power in a certain area, all focused on the healing movement through these centers. And the origin of healing waters and such things like this –is from American Indian religion.
Under “SIGNS & WONDERS MOVEMENT” on the Elijah list (website) they cite Cindy Jacobs (also associated with Peter Wagner’s new apostolic network) "A new signs and wonders movement is coming which is significantly greater than what was seen in the days of the post-World War II healing evangelists. Part of the fruit of this movement will be healing centers which will be built around the world, devoted to praying for the sick and casting out demons"
"One of the distinctive of this movement will be raising the dead. This will break barrenness off the church and such great fruitfulness will result that whole cities will turn to Christ and be transformed. This move of God will be so powerful that the church will gather in stadiums to worship…. This will grow out of what some call the 'Saints Movement', in which large numbers of ordinary believers will be mobilized to win the lost, to cast out demons, and to heal the sick."(Cindy Jacobs - 'Generals of Intercession')
We can see where this is all headed and who is behind its momentum. This is the same vision of Paul Cain who preached the Latter rain to the Vineyard movement. Healing Rooms in nearly every State of the USA, there are now Rooms in numerous countries Canada, Australia, France, Germany, England, Scotland, Northern Ireland, Korea, Malaysia, Norway, Holland, Switzerland, Singapore, South Africa, and even Israel.
This why people need to hear another side before they jump in the healing river of these rooms.
We read- A.C.T.S. Ministries stands for Apostolic Center for Training and Service
They have ministries and organizations throughout the city that are working towards city transformation
In fact, they sound like a latter rain restoration ministry that has all the elements that should be avoided by the church today. It seems to be the same concept that Ed Silvoso is pushing.
Apostolic Government (Cd) by Cal Pierce “teaching on what the Apostolic is and what God meant for it to do. Why we need it to be restored to our Church body before we see God's power here on earth. “ Or Divine Health/Healing (Cd) “A new birthing is taking place in the body of Christ. Apostolic government is birthing forth into it's fullness and the stone face of religion and witchcraft is in opposition to it's establishment. God is changing that stone face from a monument into a movement that will demonstrate His Supernatural Power!
These practices are connected to the transformations video produced through George Otis jr. who is under Wagner’s apostolic network.-
On the Healing rooms website they offer Prophetic Artwork like a stairway to heaven (there is no such thing as prophetic artwork, prophecy is spoken, it is God’s word, not images).
Along with some decent books on their website, they offer “other Books,” such as 10 Curses That Block the Blessing, books by Larry Huch who teaches how to remove curses on christians. A Divine Revelation of Hell; Booklet: Apostolic Government; books by Cindy Jacobs, Peter Wagner, Barbara Yoder, Mike Bickle by charismatic extremists like the Hunters, Paula Sandford, Norvelle Hayes; John Paul Jackson; John Bevere; E. W. Kenyon and His Message of Faith: The True Story; Booklet: Healing the Land. Experiencing The Depths of Jesus Christ by the mystic Jeanne Marie Bouvier De LA Motte Guyon. This should give an indication to where they are coming from – what they are into; its not good or healthy doctrine that is being promoted by this ministry.
Books about healing diabetes through prayer, pamphlets describing divine cures for cancer and works by faith-healing televangelist Benny Hinn are sold in an adjacent room. They offer the Mantle Pack which are “12 of the most popular and anointed books/training materials we sell at Healing Rooms Ministries.”
Prayer cloths are also used which is only found once with one apostle in the Bible, it was not a passed down Christian practice. The prayer clothes are cut from blue flannel, anointed with oil and prayed over by their intercessors.
Healing Room website- ACTS 19:11-12 "God gave Paul the power to do unusual miracles, so that even when handkerchiefs or cloths that had touched his skin were placed on sick people, they were healed of their diseases, and any evil spirits within them came out." (The New Living Translation)
”When we re-opened the Healing Rooms in Spokane, one of the things offered was to do hospital and shut-in visitation on call and have prayer cloths prayed over and sent out as requested. One of the most often requested things of the Healing Rooms is prayer cloths. Our prayer clothes are cut from a bolt of blue flannel. The cloths are anointed with oil and prayed over by our intercessors before we mail them out to you”
(Healing rooms website “Prayer Cloths”)
This might be a Pentecostal tradition like slain in the Spirit but it is not a biblical one. Only one apostle had people healed by his cloths and the Bible does not ever call them “prayer cloths.” The Bible actually calls what Paul did an unusual miracle, not an everyday occurrence, and these were Paul’s personal cloths not a merchandise production by his ministry.
The Healing rooms train their technicians with an 8 week course to be a certified healer. They call them DHT (Divine Healing Technicians), which frankly sounds scientology like.
They have a list for activating the healing- it is methodical and certainly sounds like a healing formula
– here are some excerpts that I find wrong.
“Things to do when you minister to the sick:”
14) Place you hands as close to where the problem is as possible. The power of the Holy Ghost comes out of you and you want that power as close as possible to the infirmity to destroy it. If someone needs healing in a private part of their body, have them put their hand over or near the area, then place your hand on top of theirs. Be discreet in all you do, for you represent Jesus.
19) Don't forget, there are two things necessary for the manifestation of healing to be accomplished:
a) The name of Jesus (You can't say it too much)
b) The power of God's Holy Spirit.
20) Make sure they say, "Thank you Jesus!" Thanksgiving to God can complete an incomplete healing.
23) Tell them their confession should be that by His stripes 1 am healed. Let their faith begin to speak those things that are not as though they are. (Romans 4:17) Continue to give Glory to God.
28) Don't let them lose their healing through doubt and disbelief. Stay with them until they actually know that they are healed. The devil comes to steal their healing after they leave you, so don't let him. Our best shield against this attack is our confession and our praise” (How To Keep Your Healing- http://www.healingrooms.com/keeping_your_healing.htm)
Charisma magazine reported to the Healing Rooms – “Cal Pierce, director of the Healing Rooms, believes that Christ's atonement provides both redemption and physical healing. He cannot understand how Christians can so readily believe God for their salvation but not for their healing.
"When we lay hands on people, we pray, 'You are healed'--not--'You are going to be healed,'" Pierce says. (Reopening the Healing Room, Mar.2002 By Don Otis)
If one uses this kind of logic it would be the same as saying to someone you are saved before they are. How can one honestly pray you are healed, when prayer is asking God to intervene- only God can definitively pronounce this.God has no formulae for healing, our having faith includes his will and timing in it. Saying 'you are healed' when even the Healing rooms tell people to continue to come back, means they are not actually healed.
Everyone wants power to help people that are hurting. Christians are no different. But telling people they are healed when you can’t say definitively they are is not helping anyone. What if they are not? Do you still say they are? Jesus healed and they did not have to keep coming back. While Jesus is our ultimate example it is the apostles teaching we follow because they are the ones that taught the church. They did not see everyone healed, Paul needed healing and asked the Lord 3 times of which his answer back was “my grace is sufficient.” God still heals and it is good for people to pray not to presume for their healing.
pt.4Faith Healing - Good intentions, false theology
Posted with permission:
|(View-All) Members who have read this thread : 0|
|There are no names to display.|
|Thread||Thread Starter||Forum||Replies||Last Post|
|CERTAIN SCRIPTURES THAT CAN BE USED FOR HEALING||S8VDBYGR8CE||Christian Chat||1||February 9th, 2008 12:48 PM|
|Being on the Internet: chat rooms||stirringlife||Christian Chat||11||November 27th, 2005 02:23 AM|
|Who is doing the Healing?||Omega||End Times Chat||2||October 16th, 2004 07:31 PM|